Has one useful outcome ever happened because of a Change.org petition? Any online petition? Why should anyone - using their damn brain - pay any attention whatsoever to that foolishness?
When I was younger I thought that yelling about something might change the world. Learned later that it was only because from my vantage point not being able to change things was why I was yelling.
If petitions started with their actual objectives: "This document will be used to cancel those that disagree", at least there would be a little honesty.
No one (of importance to a conflict in question) cares about what we think - the role of Western public opinion is greatly inflated IMHO. But it makes some feel their lives have a greater meaning.
We are prosocial animals. Shaming and shunning have been effective social controls since forever. Being forced to leave the protection of your in-group due to expressing heresy might end up being a death sentence if more supportive alternatives could not be found. This is perhaps most effective in a society of relatively high interdependence, rather than one with (sort of) self sufficiency.
Riffing on Thomas Jefferson's ideas about the liberty loving, independent and "self-sufficient" yeoman farmer, the ideal situation being his not having to really care about what his neighbors or most of his (limited) government agents thought or believed. I think TJ later modified his views to accept the wisdom of increasing domestic manufacturing capability as a national good. In any case, the farmer was not totally self sufficient, still requiring infrastructure and technology from his time, along with a suitable market for his produce.
In today's world, very few of us have the skills and capabilities demanded by the market to such a level that we can tell naysayers to go pound sand (GPS). [Think of name brand actors or entrepreneurs or selected medical professionals and in-demand management for large organizations, etc. Helen fits the mold as well.] But enough of us (them) do have enough value and clout in the market (physical or ideational) to offer examples of resistance to MAC that can encourage and bolster the rest of us.
Starting a solid savings and investment program early also helps provide for financial independence sooner rather than later. There are no absolute guarantees of "security" but having a decent cushion or reserves* is certainly helpful. At some point you can more confidently take the posture of a consultant offering his/her valued services to their employer (as a "client") than someone still dependent and living paycheck to paycheck. Just how brash you wish to be about it may depend on local circumstances. :-)
The growing cohort of retirees with some form of (semi) independent income can also play a role, not being subject to the same forces as employed people (aka wage slaves!) too often are. Maybe we need some form of secret handshake or something for this silent majority to secretly let the world know they disapprove of some cancellation direction, or some worse Leftist perfidy.
The comments about petitions put me in mind of a broader pathology...one probably intrinsic to mass-mediated mass society.....how it is inherently skewed towards particular kinds of personality....mouthy kinds, angry kinds, busy-body kinds. The kind of people who would sign a petition are not likely to be a cross-section of opinion.....just the kind who want to sign things - especially when put in front of them.
And something else: this skewed aspect will hugely compromise all social science/opinion research. For example here's an opinion survey question:...."Are you the kind of person who would take part in an opinion survey?"
And then there's the kind who become 'Activists'....but I'll leave it there....!
“You are not winning hearts and minds. You’re mistaking the chilling effect for agreement or changed beliefs.”
Maybe the chilling effect is all they’re after. Winning hearts and minds takes effort; intimidation is easy. And intimidation is often enough to allow a determined, militant minority to win.
I’m like everyone else that is not in the pit with the dogs fighting to the death. Wondering if the eroding ground around the pit is about to give way. What if you’re like me. I’ve just now begun to think, with a partner and some friends, about creating content. But I don’t want to subject our families to that kind of hell since I know that there are only two sexes. That alone is enough to get me cancelled and then set on fire. So what? Do we just keep our ideas to ourselves and hope to live in some kind of rough peace? I don’t think the world is going to allow it. We’re all going to have burns.
I'm curious as to what happened to Stephen Fry. I didn't hear anything about it (granted I'm in the US, so it would not necessarily make the news here). I can't find anything about him getting shitcanned. It looks like someone who took exception to his Christmas message was shown the door. Or am I missing something.
(Also, I watched the video and had to chuckle when he talked about people being "Jew-ish". After the 2022 elections and George Santos's Walter Mitty-esque (as told by the Coen Bros.) life story started to unravel, he was accused of falsely claiming he was Jewish. His response was that he never claimed he was Jewish, but that he was "Jew-ish".
Helen; The old answer would have been The Dominant Culture or Group- The Australians in this case- would inform the troublemakers that this isn’t their land to bring their war or quarrels into, and knock it off or be seen off, quite possibly penniless for causing trouble (as most immigrants to Western nations come for the money, this is just and effective).
But since it’s EVIL for any group to say this is our land, our house, leave your troubles elsewhere or be off , and we’re all equal and everything is relative; you can’t.
Australians can’t.
And the Germans can’t.
Nor the Swedes, French, Irish nor the Americans. Nor the wretched British.
Equality means no one’s in charge, law means we all sue each other, in America the 2d Amendment’s hour is nearly at hand... academia means we all plagiarize or cancel each other...
So no one’s in charge.
Until that changes chaos spreads.
It may be noted that in Israel and certainly Palestine and these various pastoral paradises most assuredly someone is in charge, and they are taking advantage of our good nature but wouldn’t chance that at “home.”
And Helen lawyers can’t run things, look at America...
Now Take Australia or watch it be torn to pieces because you wouldn’t defend it, Australians.
You aren’t equal with the others, you’re a settler nation that conquered a rather hostile place at odds, your ancestors paid the blood price, the newbies must give way and give place (equality is not a concept understood outside the West, this confuses them and they naturally push to the front and try to take charge).
As for free speech, and equality- you’ll notice that went away instantly the foreigners got any purchase. Bad faith needs to be punished or expelled, not reasoned with...
Take Australia, oh Australians.
It’s yours.
Be certain outsiders can’t run it, even if they want to...
This would include the simultaneously overextended and imploding at home American Ruling Reptiles, whom you need to see off - as we are about to in America.
No need for you to wait.
Yes all these dysfunctional behaviors are quite familiar to we Americans, why you are adopting our leperous skins even as we 🇺🇸 shed them escapes me... other than money I suppose.
See all the foreign off Australia, including and above all the 🇺🇸 elements I can sense from here.
It’s an arms race. And if you have a slingshot but your opponent has a fighter jet, you lose. Similarly, you can’t fight a junkyard dog with a poodle and a copy of the Marquess of Queensberry’s rules.
So yes this cancel culture came from the Left.
People on the right have to defend their ground. It doesn’t have to be by using the same weapon, but they have to have some type of effective weapon and an appetite for conflict when the issue really matters. Because reality demonstrates that the Marxists are relentless and persevere. So if you don’t engage and protect your ideas, they will just grind you down any way they can. It’s an ugly business, but the only way to set the terms of the conflict is to be in control of the battle field.
This seemed like an everyday tale of cancellation, however the general points you draw are interesting especially your last paragraph. It made me think of the Soviet Union. Everyone was a real good Commie, until suddenly they weren’t. It gives me hope🙂
CF was never in any danger of being cancelled because she represents the approved position. Nothing she says is outside the dominant left narrative, she just says the quiet parts out loud. I take your point though. It’s hypocritical to start calling for people to be silenced, putting pressure on publishers and creating petitions. AGB saying it should be illegal to write certain things is disappointing, esp considering the bonkers things she has written. The whole thing was very entertaining and there should be more public disagreement with ideas. I’ve always found CF cringe and wonder why she’s got such a public profile for her half formed ideas. It’s weird. When she was a tomboy and speaking from the heart, she had a nose for bullshit and a good sense of injustice and, if often inarticulate, you got the feeling she’d mature into a more nuanced voice, but it’s like she went off track somewhere. There’s a performative element to it all now. She’s bordering on a caricature of ‘Clementine Ford’. No doubt she was deeply hurt by the separation and has channeled it into her ‘feminism’. She comes across as a lady who doth protest too much.
Has one useful outcome ever happened because of a Change.org petition? Any online petition? Why should anyone - using their damn brain - pay any attention whatsoever to that foolishness?
Helen
Always enjoy your posts.
This post recalls advice from the most famous sermon ever given . . .
“You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
(Yep - hate your enemy. We’re there)
However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you,
(What’s the reason?)
so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,
(Who wants to please God anymore?)
since he makes his Sunday rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.
(Impartial)
For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have?’’
(Only recognize your own group.)
Human nature doesn’t change.
Wisdom is calling out.
Who listens?
Thanks
When I was younger I thought that yelling about something might change the world. Learned later that it was only because from my vantage point not being able to change things was why I was yelling.
If petitions started with their actual objectives: "This document will be used to cancel those that disagree", at least there would be a little honesty.
No one (of importance to a conflict in question) cares about what we think - the role of Western public opinion is greatly inflated IMHO. But it makes some feel their lives have a greater meaning.
We are prosocial animals. Shaming and shunning have been effective social controls since forever. Being forced to leave the protection of your in-group due to expressing heresy might end up being a death sentence if more supportive alternatives could not be found. This is perhaps most effective in a society of relatively high interdependence, rather than one with (sort of) self sufficiency.
Riffing on Thomas Jefferson's ideas about the liberty loving, independent and "self-sufficient" yeoman farmer, the ideal situation being his not having to really care about what his neighbors or most of his (limited) government agents thought or believed. I think TJ later modified his views to accept the wisdom of increasing domestic manufacturing capability as a national good. In any case, the farmer was not totally self sufficient, still requiring infrastructure and technology from his time, along with a suitable market for his produce.
In today's world, very few of us have the skills and capabilities demanded by the market to such a level that we can tell naysayers to go pound sand (GPS). [Think of name brand actors or entrepreneurs or selected medical professionals and in-demand management for large organizations, etc. Helen fits the mold as well.] But enough of us (them) do have enough value and clout in the market (physical or ideational) to offer examples of resistance to MAC that can encourage and bolster the rest of us.
Starting a solid savings and investment program early also helps provide for financial independence sooner rather than later. There are no absolute guarantees of "security" but having a decent cushion or reserves* is certainly helpful. At some point you can more confidently take the posture of a consultant offering his/her valued services to their employer (as a "client") than someone still dependent and living paycheck to paycheck. Just how brash you wish to be about it may depend on local circumstances. :-)
The growing cohort of retirees with some form of (semi) independent income can also play a role, not being subject to the same forces as employed people (aka wage slaves!) too often are. Maybe we need some form of secret handshake or something for this silent majority to secretly let the world know they disapprove of some cancellation direction, or some worse Leftist perfidy.
The comments about petitions put me in mind of a broader pathology...one probably intrinsic to mass-mediated mass society.....how it is inherently skewed towards particular kinds of personality....mouthy kinds, angry kinds, busy-body kinds. The kind of people who would sign a petition are not likely to be a cross-section of opinion.....just the kind who want to sign things - especially when put in front of them.
And something else: this skewed aspect will hugely compromise all social science/opinion research. For example here's an opinion survey question:...."Are you the kind of person who would take part in an opinion survey?"
And then there's the kind who become 'Activists'....but I'll leave it there....!
“You are not winning hearts and minds. You’re mistaking the chilling effect for agreement or changed beliefs.”
Maybe the chilling effect is all they’re after. Winning hearts and minds takes effort; intimidation is easy. And intimidation is often enough to allow a determined, militant minority to win.
Wow - bold Helen - to choose to defend the freedom of speech of perhaps the most hate filled person in Australia. Now we know what freedom speech means. https://bettinaarndt.substack.com/p/hateful-clementine-ford?publication_id=448263&post_id=140239031&isFreemail=true&r=qo1q
Nitpick: mutually assured destruction had actual deterrent effect. Nobody expects that with cancellation.
Your trench warfare analogy seems sounds from what my small knowledge can judge.
I’m like everyone else that is not in the pit with the dogs fighting to the death. Wondering if the eroding ground around the pit is about to give way. What if you’re like me. I’ve just now begun to think, with a partner and some friends, about creating content. But I don’t want to subject our families to that kind of hell since I know that there are only two sexes. That alone is enough to get me cancelled and then set on fire. So what? Do we just keep our ideas to ourselves and hope to live in some kind of rough peace? I don’t think the world is going to allow it. We’re all going to have burns.
I'm curious as to what happened to Stephen Fry. I didn't hear anything about it (granted I'm in the US, so it would not necessarily make the news here). I can't find anything about him getting shitcanned. It looks like someone who took exception to his Christmas message was shown the door. Or am I missing something.
(Also, I watched the video and had to chuckle when he talked about people being "Jew-ish". After the 2022 elections and George Santos's Walter Mitty-esque (as told by the Coen Bros.) life story started to unravel, he was accused of falsely claiming he was Jewish. His response was that he never claimed he was Jewish, but that he was "Jew-ish".
Helen; The old answer would have been The Dominant Culture or Group- The Australians in this case- would inform the troublemakers that this isn’t their land to bring their war or quarrels into, and knock it off or be seen off, quite possibly penniless for causing trouble (as most immigrants to Western nations come for the money, this is just and effective).
But since it’s EVIL for any group to say this is our land, our house, leave your troubles elsewhere or be off , and we’re all equal and everything is relative; you can’t.
Australians can’t.
And the Germans can’t.
Nor the Swedes, French, Irish nor the Americans. Nor the wretched British.
Equality means no one’s in charge, law means we all sue each other, in America the 2d Amendment’s hour is nearly at hand... academia means we all plagiarize or cancel each other...
So no one’s in charge.
Until that changes chaos spreads.
It may be noted that in Israel and certainly Palestine and these various pastoral paradises most assuredly someone is in charge, and they are taking advantage of our good nature but wouldn’t chance that at “home.”
And Helen lawyers can’t run things, look at America...
Now Take Australia or watch it be torn to pieces because you wouldn’t defend it, Australians.
You aren’t equal with the others, you’re a settler nation that conquered a rather hostile place at odds, your ancestors paid the blood price, the newbies must give way and give place (equality is not a concept understood outside the West, this confuses them and they naturally push to the front and try to take charge).
As for free speech, and equality- you’ll notice that went away instantly the foreigners got any purchase. Bad faith needs to be punished or expelled, not reasoned with...
Take Australia, oh Australians.
It’s yours.
Be certain outsiders can’t run it, even if they want to...
This would include the simultaneously overextended and imploding at home American Ruling Reptiles, whom you need to see off - as we are about to in America.
No need for you to wait.
Yes all these dysfunctional behaviors are quite familiar to we Americans, why you are adopting our leperous skins even as we 🇺🇸 shed them escapes me... other than money I suppose.
See all the foreign off Australia, including and above all the 🇺🇸 elements I can sense from here.
Take Australia back.
Cheers!
It’s an arms race. And if you have a slingshot but your opponent has a fighter jet, you lose. Similarly, you can’t fight a junkyard dog with a poodle and a copy of the Marquess of Queensberry’s rules.
So yes this cancel culture came from the Left.
People on the right have to defend their ground. It doesn’t have to be by using the same weapon, but they have to have some type of effective weapon and an appetite for conflict when the issue really matters. Because reality demonstrates that the Marxists are relentless and persevere. So if you don’t engage and protect your ideas, they will just grind you down any way they can. It’s an ugly business, but the only way to set the terms of the conflict is to be in control of the battle field.
This seemed like an everyday tale of cancellation, however the general points you draw are interesting especially your last paragraph. It made me think of the Soviet Union. Everyone was a real good Commie, until suddenly they weren’t. It gives me hope🙂
It's all about ego. I'll be recommending this piece in connection with my own, publishing later today.
CF was never in any danger of being cancelled because she represents the approved position. Nothing she says is outside the dominant left narrative, she just says the quiet parts out loud. I take your point though. It’s hypocritical to start calling for people to be silenced, putting pressure on publishers and creating petitions. AGB saying it should be illegal to write certain things is disappointing, esp considering the bonkers things she has written. The whole thing was very entertaining and there should be more public disagreement with ideas. I’ve always found CF cringe and wonder why she’s got such a public profile for her half formed ideas. It’s weird. When she was a tomboy and speaking from the heart, she had a nose for bullshit and a good sense of injustice and, if often inarticulate, you got the feeling she’d mature into a more nuanced voice, but it’s like she went off track somewhere. There’s a performative element to it all now. She’s bordering on a caricature of ‘Clementine Ford’. No doubt she was deeply hurt by the separation and has channeled it into her ‘feminism’. She comes across as a lady who doth protest too much.