I’m not made queasy by the references to Jews — I’m revolted by them. Truly disgusting, othering stuff.
“What women and Jews have in common is a vision of themselves as peaceful people. It is self-delusion.” I see: we’re actually bellicose. The brutish, militaristic Jew has entered the chat. Blood libel adjacent or close.
I’m not made queasy by the references to Jews — I’m revolted by them. Truly disgusting, othering stuff.
“What women and Jews have in common is a vision of themselves as peaceful people. It is self-delusion.” I see: we’re actually bellicose. The brutish, militaristic Jew has entered the chat. Blood libel adjacent or close.
I’ve been a fan of Helen’s for a long time, but candidly you can both get stuffed with that garbage.
The rest of the essay was excellent but I say that with zero enthusiasm.
Jeff, I'll leave Helen to respond if she chooses. I'll just say I was a very interested bystander in 1995 when she was being "cancelled" - subscriber to Quadrant (and News Weekly!) and reader of the major capital dailies. She was heavily attacked by a not-insignificant portion of the higher-profile Jewish community in Australia - no-holds barred and very personal. It is fair to say, even to an outside observer, they were trying to end her career and destroy her. It's not for me to judge the rights and wrongs, but it looked very heavy handed, and identical (perhaps a template) for what happens so often now.
I'm not sure that it's an outright slander to say Jews are not peaceful - they have no reason to be and plenty of reason not. I'm not peaceful, either. I think you're making the jump from not peaceful to bellicose, brutish etc. I'm pretty sure that's not Lorenzo's meaning or implication.
But, as I've already said - it's a vexed topic, and a difficult formulation. I have a bit more trust in good intentions, but that's not right for everyone.
People are entitled to their views on this issue, but I’ll just note here that Tony gives an accurate thumbnail sketch of what went on wrt me. Lorenzo’s essay under the link goes into more detail, as does my piece on “the Omnicause” and Katy Barnett’s piece on “living in interesting times” (all available on the front page of the blog).
The wider problem is that it wasn’t just done to me. What made my situation notable was its publicness—everyone got to see it and people around at the time remember it. It was also done to a significant number of people who criticised hate speech laws (which were promoted by the Jewish lobby) and supported Palestine (in any form, not just the obvious pro-Hamas fruitcakes you see on university campuses). Often their stories did not become known, although ex-Jerusalem bureau chief for the Australian John Lyons has put together a collection of the worst Aussie ones in a book.
Now (as should be obvious to anyone with eyes), the pro-Palestinians in Western countries are taking what they consider vengeance. When I was in Australia in October I encountered quite a few of them who wanted to use me as a stick to beat Jews with. Meanwhile, just before I arrived in the country a group of Jewish creatives were mass doxxed and personal information about them leaked. This is exactly what was done to me, and I want nothing to do with people who prosecute their cause in this way.
It is important to note the differences: pro-Palestinian lobbying in Western countries has crossed over into street violence and terrorism. This is far worse than anything the Jewish lobby has ever done, pro-Palestinians need to own it, and stop giving us crap about “settler-colonialism”. However, the use of “peaceful” cancel culture methods over many decades does no credit to Jewish activists, and they need to own it too.
The Jewish self image as peaceful — THE one Jewish self image
Their [i.e. Jewish] activists pioneered cancel culture
NONE OF THESE THINGS EXIST, except in a phantasmagorial projection of Jews as forming a conspiracy. And that is classic antisemitism. Which you are now performing.
There are Jewish organizations that lobby. There is no Jewish lobby as an amorphous faceless force. The phrase itself is antisemitic, à la “the Israel lobby.”
There is no unified Jewish self image as peaceful. In fact, there is no unified Jewish self image in general: as the phrase goes, two Jews, three opinions. We are not a faceless non-individuated blob.
Cancel culture certainly exists, and I deplore it. However, ostracism has been a feature of human life for (one must assume) millennia. The idea that the Jews created cancel culture is insane.
I’ve long been a fan of Helen’s, and I think what happened to her was dreadful. That it happened at the hands of progressives, some of whom were Jewish, I do not doubt. But there’s something going on here that is deeply distasteful, and which you guys are clearly not aware of. I’ve done all I can. I will say one more time: we are not a monolithic blob, and we do not think of ourselves as being NOT like ordinary humans. In fact, we would like to be like ordinary humans. As the line (from Fiddler on the Roof?) goes, “I know we’re the chosen people, but couldn’t you [God] choose someone else once in a while?”
Maybe hang out with some Jews. I’m outta here. Thank you for engaging.
Oh fuck off, you idiot. You completely failed to engage with my argument and missed the fact — which a moderately attentive reader would have gotten — that the “chosen people” thing was a stock trope from our history that I was invoking ironically. Again, I suggest you spend some time with actual Jews and less time with your distasteful stereotypes about us. Hint: almost all of our humor is self-deprecating.
A lot of what activists purporting to speak on behalf of Jews got up to was vile. But part of the reason they could get away with such monstering of people for what they said or wrote was precisely the Jewish self-image as being a peaceful people, rather than just ordinarily human.
The pro-Palestinian activists post October 7 have behaved much worse than activists purporting to speak on behalf of Jews ever did. Nevertheless, Jewish denial that their activists pioneered modern cancel culture are up there with progressives, particularly female progressives, denying there is any such thing as cancel culture. The self image as peaceful and moral, and what was done was just moral concern, is part of such self-blinding.
I’m not made queasy by the references to Jews — I’m revolted by them. Truly disgusting, othering stuff.
“What women and Jews have in common is a vision of themselves as peaceful people. It is self-delusion.” I see: we’re actually bellicose. The brutish, militaristic Jew has entered the chat. Blood libel adjacent or close.
I’ve been a fan of Helen’s for a long time, but candidly you can both get stuffed with that garbage.
The rest of the essay was excellent but I say that with zero enthusiasm.
Jeff, I'll leave Helen to respond if she chooses. I'll just say I was a very interested bystander in 1995 when she was being "cancelled" - subscriber to Quadrant (and News Weekly!) and reader of the major capital dailies. She was heavily attacked by a not-insignificant portion of the higher-profile Jewish community in Australia - no-holds barred and very personal. It is fair to say, even to an outside observer, they were trying to end her career and destroy her. It's not for me to judge the rights and wrongs, but it looked very heavy handed, and identical (perhaps a template) for what happens so often now.
I'm not sure that it's an outright slander to say Jews are not peaceful - they have no reason to be and plenty of reason not. I'm not peaceful, either. I think you're making the jump from not peaceful to bellicose, brutish etc. I'm pretty sure that's not Lorenzo's meaning or implication.
But, as I've already said - it's a vexed topic, and a difficult formulation. I have a bit more trust in good intentions, but that's not right for everyone.
People are entitled to their views on this issue, but I’ll just note here that Tony gives an accurate thumbnail sketch of what went on wrt me. Lorenzo’s essay under the link goes into more detail, as does my piece on “the Omnicause” and Katy Barnett’s piece on “living in interesting times” (all available on the front page of the blog).
The wider problem is that it wasn’t just done to me. What made my situation notable was its publicness—everyone got to see it and people around at the time remember it. It was also done to a significant number of people who criticised hate speech laws (which were promoted by the Jewish lobby) and supported Palestine (in any form, not just the obvious pro-Hamas fruitcakes you see on university campuses). Often their stories did not become known, although ex-Jerusalem bureau chief for the Australian John Lyons has put together a collection of the worst Aussie ones in a book.
Now (as should be obvious to anyone with eyes), the pro-Palestinians in Western countries are taking what they consider vengeance. When I was in Australia in October I encountered quite a few of them who wanted to use me as a stick to beat Jews with. Meanwhile, just before I arrived in the country a group of Jewish creatives were mass doxxed and personal information about them leaked. This is exactly what was done to me, and I want nothing to do with people who prosecute their cause in this way.
It is important to note the differences: pro-Palestinian lobbying in Western countries has crossed over into street violence and terrorism. This is far worse than anything the Jewish lobby has ever done, pro-Palestinians need to own it, and stop giving us crap about “settler-colonialism”. However, the use of “peaceful” cancel culture methods over many decades does no credit to Jewish activists, and they need to own it too.
I’ll say this as gently as I can. I read:
The Jewish lobby
The Jewish self image as peaceful — THE one Jewish self image
Their [i.e. Jewish] activists pioneered cancel culture
NONE OF THESE THINGS EXIST, except in a phantasmagorial projection of Jews as forming a conspiracy. And that is classic antisemitism. Which you are now performing.
There are Jewish organizations that lobby. There is no Jewish lobby as an amorphous faceless force. The phrase itself is antisemitic, à la “the Israel lobby.”
There is no unified Jewish self image as peaceful. In fact, there is no unified Jewish self image in general: as the phrase goes, two Jews, three opinions. We are not a faceless non-individuated blob.
Cancel culture certainly exists, and I deplore it. However, ostracism has been a feature of human life for (one must assume) millennia. The idea that the Jews created cancel culture is insane.
I’ve long been a fan of Helen’s, and I think what happened to her was dreadful. That it happened at the hands of progressives, some of whom were Jewish, I do not doubt. But there’s something going on here that is deeply distasteful, and which you guys are clearly not aware of. I’ve done all I can. I will say one more time: we are not a monolithic blob, and we do not think of ourselves as being NOT like ordinary humans. In fact, we would like to be like ordinary humans. As the line (from Fiddler on the Roof?) goes, “I know we’re the chosen people, but couldn’t you [God] choose someone else once in a while?”
Maybe hang out with some Jews. I’m outta here. Thank you for engaging.
Yes, we get it, Jews are the Chosen People, a superior group of human beings criticisms of patterns among whom are never legitimate.
Oh fuck off, you idiot. You completely failed to engage with my argument and missed the fact — which a moderately attentive reader would have gotten — that the “chosen people” thing was a stock trope from our history that I was invoking ironically. Again, I suggest you spend some time with actual Jews and less time with your distasteful stereotypes about us. Hint: almost all of our humor is self-deprecating.
A lot of what activists purporting to speak on behalf of Jews got up to was vile. But part of the reason they could get away with such monstering of people for what they said or wrote was precisely the Jewish self-image as being a peaceful people, rather than just ordinarily human.
The pro-Palestinian activists post October 7 have behaved much worse than activists purporting to speak on behalf of Jews ever did. Nevertheless, Jewish denial that their activists pioneered modern cancel culture are up there with progressives, particularly female progressives, denying there is any such thing as cancel culture. The self image as peaceful and moral, and what was done was just moral concern, is part of such self-blinding.
You might also be interested in my post here.
https://www.lorenzofromoz.net/p/marxism-is-a-dreadful-framing
I discussed the problems of activists purporting to speak on behalf of Jews in this post.
https://www.lorenzofromoz.net/p/jews-cant-afford-the-jewish-lobby