So, going back to the Roman Republic - was religion necessary for social cohesion then? You often work forward from the Roman/Christian merger. What about working back?
So, going back to the Roman Republic - was religion necessary for social cohesion then? You often work forward from the Roman/Christian merger. What about working back?
That would make me think it wasn't that strong - which leaves Nietzsche in a rather curious place. The master morality subverted by a slave morality. Although he did admire the cleverness of priestly hate, it would seem it is almost fated to win.
Further, you point out the law was human as opposed to divine. Is that a fundamental social weak point? The later, merged sensibility, sublimated civil law until the Renaissance, and it was a long, slow re-emergence.
I would assume that the religious tradition of the day, back then, had been hollowed out - making it more susceptible to replacement. Much as our own religious tradition today is.
The more relevant point is that Rome had civil law, not divine. Does dividing that authority imply a fundamental weakness because of how we humans tend to think/behave? We did end up with a hybrid in the wake of the fall.
Happened to catch the first episode of a PBS series on Julius Caesar, and learned that his first high office was religious! He was elected Pontifex Maximus, which was to be a stepping stone to Consul. So perhaps it was a combination of religious decline and political corruption (seeping into the religious).
No, the Church always thought law was human (see Aquinas, for example). It just that religious law was the human attempt to follow GodтАЩs rules as embedded in the universe (natural law) and via revelation. The retreat of canon law was about relative power and authority.
I think we're more in agreement actually - since Aquinas was the 'modern' starting point for the natural [human] law that would ascend in importance for Western culture. Even the American expression of "endowed by their Creator with..." is maybe the last connective tissue of the divine and civil.
So, going back to the Roman Republic - was religion necessary for social cohesion then? You often work forward from the Roman/Christian merger. What about working back?
The ritual structure of the Roman republic was definitely part of its functioning. The Christians clearly thought they had to displace it.
That would make me think it wasn't that strong - which leaves Nietzsche in a rather curious place. The master morality subverted by a slave morality. Although he did admire the cleverness of priestly hate, it would seem it is almost fated to win.
Further, you point out the law was human as opposed to divine. Is that a fundamental social weak point? The later, merged sensibility, sublimated civil law until the Renaissance, and it was a long, slow re-emergence.
"That would make me think it wasn't that strong..."
Well, the first kings of Rome reigned around 500BC and Paganism was not officially dethroned till about 400AD.
The Gods of Rome lived for probably close to a millenium...not a bad run!
I would assume that the religious tradition of the day, back then, had been hollowed out - making it more susceptible to replacement. Much as our own religious tradition today is.
The more relevant point is that Rome had civil law, not divine. Does dividing that authority imply a fundamental weakness because of how we humans tend to think/behave? We did end up with a hybrid in the wake of the fall.
There had been a fair bit of hollowing out, yes. As various Roman writers had started complaining about during the Republic.
Happened to catch the first episode of a PBS series on Julius Caesar, and learned that his first high office was religious! He was elected Pontifex Maximus, which was to be a stepping stone to Consul. So perhaps it was a combination of religious decline and political corruption (seeping into the religious).
No, the Church always thought law was human (see Aquinas, for example). It just that religious law was the human attempt to follow GodтАЩs rules as embedded in the universe (natural law) and via revelation. The retreat of canon law was about relative power and authority.
I think we're more in agreement actually - since Aquinas was the 'modern' starting point for the natural [human] law that would ascend in importance for Western culture. Even the American expression of "endowed by their Creator with..." is maybe the last connective tissue of the divine and civil.